JADAR

The latest new musical to premiere in Manchester is I Should Be So Lucky, a jukebox musical using the music of Stock Aitken Waterman, written and directed by Debbie Isitt.

At the launch event at the Lawn Club, I had the opportunity to interview Pete Watermen OBE and Isitt, as well as cast-members Scott Paige and Kayla Carter. I later interviewed fellow cast-member Matthew Croke for an in-depth conversation.

Pete Waterman OBE

Whilst there are a lot of jukebox musicals out there (too many, some might argue), there are not a lot of musicals based on the music of songwriters. & Juliet, which also premiered in Manchester, might be the only other one.

Pete told me that Stock Aitken Watermen have been approached by theatre-makers many times. Around twenty years ago, he tried to talk Mike Stock into doing something similar, which never came to fruition. However, nobody had come up with a story based around the songs. Rather, they had tried to fit the songs into the story.

“That doesn’t work ’cause the lyrics on these songs are very important,” he said.

When the trio did the Channel 5 documentary, they were ready to finally make a musical.

“[We’re not] getting any younger. It’s time [for] my grandkids to see what their pop did,” he admitted.

He told me that this experience has been emotional.

“All the millions of people that bought the records, we never took that for granted. I always remember saying to Kylie – she’s like a skyrocket – ‘Grab hold the stick and enjoy the ride ’cause you don’t know when it’s gonna stop’. That’s been my philosophy since the beginning.

“After all this time, Kylie’s now going to do bigger things, [such as] Glastonbury; Rick’s [Astley] done Glastonbury. 30 years ago, we never would have even been considered at Glastonbury, so you can sit and look back at all the stuff you’ve done and go, ‘Well, nobody ever believed we could do this, and here we are,’ and what’s stood up is the songs.”

Pete admitted that the trio “used to fight like mad” over the songs.

“Some of them came very easily but they were always giant collaborations between the three of us. Mike pulled them all together, that’s what he did, but they were a combination of all [our] ideas, with Mike being the arbiter of pulling those ideas together. But I’ve seen Mike and Matt come to blows.

“We took that legacy of what we were doing very seriously ’cause we knew that the kids that were buying our records – ’cause they were predominantly under 21 – we knew [these] songs were important to them ’cause they’re emotional. It was about a first love, love that they’d be jilted from – ‘Never Gonna Give You Up’. So, every song’s got a message.

“I guess the only song we ever wrote that didn’t have a message, in the respect of it being a relationship message, was Mel & Kim’s ‘Respectable’, which I told you about today [during my speech].”

Whilst the lyrics of the song are said to be inspired by the sisters’ dismissive and shame-free response to a tabloid scandal over the emergence of old nude glamour photos of Mel, Waterman offered me another inspiration for the lyrics.

“At that point, I was so angry at the way we were being treated. The record industry removed us from the [awards] categories so we couldn’t win, so I thought, ‘Okay, if you wanna be like that, I’ll be like that’.

“I took [an] ad, and I’d done an article for the NME, and all Mike did was [take] bits of the ad and the story from the NME, and suddenly I hear this track that we were working on – suddenly, it’s Mel & Kim, and you just knew, ‘Wow! Nobody’s done this before’. You know, it was so different, that track, from what anybody had done. The video was different.”

I told Waterman that the first time I heard the song and saw the video was in G-A-Y in London. I was captivated.

“But then, think about it, at that time, the racial problem… was completely different. It wasn’t acceptable. It was bad enough producing Divine for TV and radio, but Mel & Kim – I know it sounds crazy now. We didn’t think it was a bold stroke at all; they were just two kids we loved who could sing.

“When we took that video to the BBC for Saturday morning TV, they seriously looked at that and thought, ‘Should we be playing this?’ Seriously – I know that sound so naive now but that’s what it was like. They tried to ban the video because Kim knocked the hat off the policeman, ’til we pointed out it was a New York cop, it wasn’t a bobby – so we got away with it. Also, in the video, which we had to take out, was a Coke bottle – ’cause it was advertising, The BBC tried desperately to ban that record – anything to stop the kids’ show showing Mel & Kim.”

Mel & Kim’s career was short-lived because Mel tragically died of pneumonia, following treatment for cancer, in 1990. She was 23.

“I still miss Kim,” Pete told me, his emotion causing him to mix the sisters’ names up.

“[I] cannot explain the beauty of this girl. She was just unreal. She had this effervescent character. She was actually from the arsehole end of London – poor as poor can be – and she just took life as a beautiful picture.

“I remember, we wrote a song called ‘FLM’ – fun, love and money – and we got criticised in the press, particularly NME. ‘Outrageous’ – how dare we wright capitalist songs like this? And I called the journalist up; I said, ‘That’s really interesting, your review – but you haven’t listened to the lyrics, have you? It stands for “fucking lovely, mate” – that’s what it stands for. If you listen to the lyrics, it’s all about anti-greed, it’s about what kids’ view of a life is.”

Indeed, “f*cking lovely, mate,” was an expression frequently used by the sisters during the recording sessions for the album

“These girls are from the arsehole end of London, and they told us a story about how they used to go kissing frogs. We didn’t dream that up; this is reality; this is what’s going on in the streets. The London kids got it; they understood it.

“Looking back, I did the first ever nighttime television show. People went, ‘You’ll never get away with this’, but it’s a different world [now]. You’ve gotta believe in what you’re doing. People today, of a certain age, still know me more for The Hitman [and Her] than any of my hits. ‘Cause it was iconic. It was the first all-night television show. So I’ve had Royals, I’ve had Prime Ministers, I’ve had Cabinet Ministers, I’ve had lecturers, intellectuals – all talk to me about The Hitman; [they] don’t wanna talk about music!”

Debbie Isitt

Whilst Debbie is a very established writer – best-known for the Nativity! film and stage musical franchise and also the BAFTA-winning The Illustrated Mum – ISBSL is very different to anything that she has done previously.

“I love the songs, first and foremost, and I’ve obviously had them in my life for much of my life. I felt like the songs would really work in a musical and that shining a light on them in a different way would introduce a new audience to the songs. I’ve got a 24-year-old daughter who doesn’t know most of the songs. I just thought, ‘What a shame; I would love her to get to know and love the songs’ – so that was a bit of the inspiration as well.

“But just listening to the music, ideas for the story just started to emerge out of the songs really – and that’s when I thought, ‘Yes, I really want to do this,’ because I didn’t wanna write a story and then go through the songs and try and shoe-horn. You want it to work the other way around [or else] it just becomes a musical, instead of something that’s been specially written – organic.”

One of the hardest creative decisions for Debbie was choosing which songs from SAW’s stellar discography to choose.

“There were so many songs to choose from. I was lost for weeks,” she admitted.

At the time of this interview, there was still time to change around the music, as had happened during the workshops. For instance, Mike Stock had suggested swapping one song for another; she wasn’t sure but they gave it a go and it worked.

“I just feel like the songs are fun and feel-good and emotional, and the story is too, and it all seems to fit!”

Whilst Debbie is the writer, the songs do not belong to her. Pete told me that SAW had conflicts as a trio so I was curious to know how Debbie has found it working with the guys and making their songs part of her story.

“Well, they’re the first to admit that they are very protective of their songs and music – as they should be. But, in the end, musical theatre is a different medium. It’s not a concert; it’s not a pop concert. So, you can’t replicate the songs exactly as they were. You need the freedom to slow them down at times, to make a ballad out of what was a pop song, or speed up the song because the energy of the show, the story, requires it. You need to be able to mess with it a bit.

“So, it’s been quite difficult for them, at their own admission, to let go and accept that things may not be exactly as they were. But we are definitely enjoying the process. It’s a balance that we’ve got to strike between us which is not disappointing the fans that love the songs and yet telling the story truthfully and making sure the songs work in the story.

“It’s pressure but it’s also sort of what you do, isn’t it, when you take on a job. Challenges are really conducive to creativity. I mean, if there were no challenges, there would be nothing creative about it, so you want those challenges and [you] find your way through them and overcome them. Then we all feel great, like, ‘We solved that!’ or ‘We think we’ve got that balance just right’.

“It’s all part of the process of making any kind of – dare I say, art? Art – let’s say it. Let’s say art! It’s exciting because we’re all vulnerable; we’re all excited but nervous about putting it in front of an audience. Everyone’s reputation is [on the line].”

“It’s a brand-new musical. It’s not even based on a film; it’s completely new,” I said.

“It’s completely new and [everyone wants it to work] – it feels like it’s going to but no one knows anything. So, you just have to go with it, do your best, work as hard as you can, believe in it as much as you can, and then the rest is up to the Gods,” Debbie said.

I next asked Debbie why people who did not grow up with the musical, i.e. younger people like me and her daughter (we’re the same age), should see the musical.

“Well, I think because the songs are great and they will like them. But also the story is multi-generational, so the story is about family, and so if you’re a young person, you will definitely relate to the family dynamic, and there’s young characters in it, and I really wanted that.

“I didn’t want it to just be a kind of retrospective of ‘come if you are a fan’ kind=of story. I wanted it to be set now and accessible to everyone really so I’m hoping that that plays out because the songs deserve to be heard by a whole new generation, and as I say, this story is for everyone,” Debbie explained.

I told Debbie that I think my generation, which is very progressive, will greatly appreciate the diversity of her cast – people of all shapes and sizes, and various racial backgrounds, ages and sizes!

“A hundred percent. It is just no question about it – that is my tribe, right there. I kept rejecting [people]. I said, ‘No, I want more plus-sized people; bring in more diversity’. We want relatable – not for being ‘woke’ or any of that; I’m not that generation – but just to be relatable, to be real, because that’s real people, looking at themselves.

“And it’s the same when I make the Nativity! films – the kids, they love watching the films ’cause they see themselves. They’re not show kids; they’re just normal kids.

“And so why aren’t there more characters in musicals that are all kinds of different shapes and sizes, all ethnicities, all genders, sexualities? That’s life! That’s what life is – just put it on the stage! And there’s so much talent out there, and we’ve got these actors, that are all shapes and sizes, who can all dance the hell out of everything. There’s so much prejudice.”

“It’s like Lizzo,” I interrupted.

“Lizzo – queen!” Debbie exclaimed. “She’s amazing… Stop putting people in boxes. Get out there, be proud, be yourself – let’s celebrate who we are. I mean, Pete said it earlier: human kindness; being true to yourself; love – these are the things that matter.”

Scott Paige and Kayla Carter

Scott’s notable credits include the original cast of Made in Dagenham, the original UK cast of The Addams Family, the original cast of Eugenius!, the third UK tour of Nativity!, and the original cast of The Great British Bake Off Musical – and some of you might recognise him from The Circle!

I first saw him in the first UK tour of The Addams Family, when he covered an indisposed Les Dennis (Uncle Fester). I met him too; he was lovely. I then saw him in the second tour of the show, which he led. Ironically, he was off when I saw The GBBO Musical.

Kayla’s notable credits include the recent revival of Rent at Hope Mill Theatre, the original cast of Bedknobs and Broomsticks, and the regional premiere and original UK tour cast of The Color Purple, both of which I saw (I reviewed the former).

Kayla told me that she is “playing the [bride’s] best friend, Bonnie,” with Scott adding that he is “playing Michael, who’s also the best friend.”

“We’re the bride’s two besties,” Kayla explained. “The only conflict we have is that I think I’m maid-of-honour, and Scott thinks that he’s maid-of-honour.”

“So we shall see who catches the bouquet,” Scott added.

“If you watch the trailer, I actually catch it,” Kayla laughed.

Scott explained that their characters are part of the bride’s support network, especially after she is jilted at the alter and the bridal party decide to go on the honeymoon anyway!

However, Kayla explained that all of the supporting characters have their individual stories.

“You see Bonnie fall in love with someone, and you see Michael… doing what Michael does!” she joked.

Scott burst out laughing before elaborating, “That’s what’s amazing with Debbie. When they go to Turkey, they all discover either love or different friendships. They all have their different journeys… What Kayla’s just said; I’ve just said it longer!”

I asked the pair whether the fun, feel-good musical will be topical.

“What I love about it is that we’re seeing full-bodied people onstage. It’s not your typical skinny, sorta 42nd Street, A Chorus Line. There’s en ensemble of real people, so everyone can connect with someone; they look at themselves in our show. It’s different; it’s diverse; it’s what we need,” Scott said.

“I’m very used to being the best friend casting, and it’s not often that you see someone plus-size being the romantic lead, but then Bonnie does have her romantic storyline. I actually was speaking to Debbie about that, and I was like, ‘I can’t believe that I get that’. And she was like, ‘Yeah because it’s about time!’” Kayla said.

“What a perfect musical to pay homage to that – all these different cultures,” Scott added.

This prompted me to ask how the show compares to their previous shows.

Kayla has only starred in tours so far but she is excited to star in a “modern-day” show because all of her previous shows have been set in the past.

“Oh, I can wear modern clothes – that’s nice!” she laughed.

“[ISBSL is] very different to Addams Family obviously. It’s not as dark, and I’m still bald but I’ve got a colourful shirt, which is nice – instead of the big old [coat] and not a white face and the sunken, dark eyes!”

“You’re gonna be getting a tan; you’re in Turkey!” I joked.

ISBSL had two workshops, with Kayla appearing in the first workshop and Scott in the second. Kayla told me that the first workshop was the bones of the idea and the second workshop was more developmental – but, sadly, she could not appear in it because she was on tour with The Color Purple.

Scott loves that Debbie’s workshops are collaborative: actors do what they want to do, and they all see what works. Kayla said that Debbie is very honest and will tell them if she hates something.

Whilst this is a brand-new story, it features some of the most iconic songs in music history.

“We need to do it justice,” Scott acknowledged. “Working with some incredible creatives, I think we will do that… There you go; there’s your answer. We will! Goodbye. Thank you very much,” he joked.

You can catch Scott Paige and Kayla Carter in I Should Be So Lucky at Opera House Manchester until November 2 and on tour around the UK until May the 4th (be with you).