JADAR

Jim Steinman’s Bat Out of Hell premiered at Opera House Manchester in 2017, ahead of a West End transfer. It returned as part of its first-ever UK tour in 2021. The latest UK tour is inspired by the Australian and New Zealand arena tour. Before it flies into Manchester, we got to sit down with Ryan Carter, who plays Jagwire.

What’s Bat Out of Hell about and what’s makes it special?

RC: “Bat out of Hell is a dystopian story heavily inspired by Peter Pan, with a Romeo and Juliet aspect. So there’s a group of us called The Lost, who are basically mutated teenagers that are like frozen in time and can’t age beyond 18. Our leader, Strat, who’s ultimately a bit like Peter, ends up falling in love with the daughter of Obsidian’s tyrant, Falco, who’s inspired by Captain Hook and wants to kill us outlaws. It’s a very dramatic and heavy dystopian story.

“Its pretty far-fetched but because music is so epic and operatic that it definitely suits the abstract story. I actually found out Jim Steinman was heavily inspired by Wagner, who obviously wrote a lot of big orchestral music. So especially as a singer, it kind of warrants like a big emotional arc which is nice because I’ve had some jobs where I’ve had to sing pop stuff and give it an arc where there’s nothing to work with.”

So this production’s inspired by the Australian and New Zealand concert tour?

RC: “It is, and I guess this is insider info, but I know for a fact it was meant to be even closer to the arena version, which was completely stripped back. There was no set. It was all just scaffolding and handheld microphones, which meant the sound was sensational but it was visually like a concert. And then during rehearsals, they kept adding bits of set and not really telling us, so I came in one day and they put these two giant rocks on the stage, which is something that’s in previous versions, and I was like: ‘Where do I stand now?’ (laughs). 

“Then by the time we got to Edinburgh, which is where we opened, we went to see the staging, and there was quite a lot more bits bolted on. It looks brilliant, but I know that when the press releases for the original announcement went out, they thought it was gonna be way closer to the original show. I think the designers basically had to think, ‘We’ll chuck whatever we can at it to make it still works but also make it physically tourable’.

“Times are changing, man. It’s a really tough economic climate and shows close all the time if they’re not budgeted properly. They’ve managed to create a version of the show, which I think will survive the test of time because it’s economically viable. I do think audiences need to be really aware that we either find ways to make the show work economically or we can’t do the show.

“But I personally believe there’s enough for people that have seen the show before to still love it and still hold onto it. For people that haven’t seen the show before, I don’t think they know any different.

“The original, either Colosseum or Dominion runs, were epic in production value. Someone told me there was a swimming pool on the stage but, I can be transparent, there’s no underwater costume changes happening in this production, otherwise I would probably trip and fall into it!”

What’s it like having a live band on stage?

RC: “It’s really cool. The band are pretty sensational but I’m very biased! I’ve never done a show where the sound has been mixed to sound almost like a concert. Most of my shows have been traditional musicals in set up, even if they are jukebox or pop inspired.

“Having the band on stage obviously means that those of us with a lot of vocal solos have in ears monitors which saves my voice because I can hear myself without having to push too far. It also means that the sound is very consistent from an audience perspective and they’ll get amazing sound at every venue. 

“It’s nice to be able to turn around and see the band and take my cues as part of the scene rather than having to look at the monitor. I believe that this particular band have done it multiple times before, and some of them had existing contracts but left those to come and do the show because the band love playing it as much as we do.

“Even the cast have been doing it for years: Rob (Falco) and Sharon (Sloane) have done it, I think since the start in 2017. Katie (Raven) has been a cover before but now plays Raven. Georgia (Zahara), who’s like my partner in the show, has covered the role before, but it’s my first time!

“Normally I’m freaking out and wait for previews before I’m like fully comfortable to enjoy my job. But by day two, I was just having a great time because of the cast.

“Knowing that I’ve joined something which people are so happy to keep returning to is obviously a big tick but also extremely daunting. I thought I was going to shit myself! Everyone is sensationally talented, and the rehearsal process was super intense. But again, because there’s so many people that have done it before, if ever I didn’t know what I was doing or something was being glossed over because there’s so many moving parts; there was always someone to lean on if needed.

“I love doing the show. I’m having too much fun if I’m being honest! It doesn’t really feel like a job sometimes. And this is my first tour so I’ve not experienced this before, and I’m still acclimatising to the fact that we get one day off in between venues where we have to travel. Two days ago I was in Portsmouth, and we came up yesterday and opened the show straight away. 

“I’m neurodivergent as well so I’m finding it quite intense and I’m just trying to work out how to get around that, but this is only venue three, so I’m assuming that by September, I might be used to it or maybe not. Maybe this is something you don’t get used to, but you do it because you love it. 

“But the audiences have been amazing. I’ve never done a show with a fan base like this. My sister is a performer as well and she’s had a lot of fan experience, whereas I am quite a big introvert.”

Can you tell me a bit about your character?

RC: “Yeah, so my character is called Jagwire, whose name, as I was told by the director, is inspired by a live wire and a Jaguar. If Strat is the Peter Pan/leader of the group, Jagwire is like his #2. Strat spends most of the show in love with this girl, so in most of my scenes with the group, I’m the de facto leader, but I also spend a lot of my time going after a girl.

“After ‘Objects in the Rear View Mirror’, one of my favourite songs to sing in the show, Jagwire realises he has to get his shit together and be an adult. They’ve all been frozen at 18 for a long time, so there’s a maturity there, but there’s also a huge amount of rebellious spirit, a f*ck the system attitude, in them all. So for me, in act two, he has to acknowledge that he might have to say goodbye to being a rebel and look after people, especially to convince Zahara he would be good for her.

“At one point, I described him as like a ‘bisexual with mummy issues’.  I don’t know if that’s how other people play it, and that at no point did any creatives tell me that’s how to play it, but The Lost are very queer, I’m queer, everything’s very fluid. No one in The Lost lives up to gender norms in this particular show.

“I think for me, [Jagwire’s] relationship with Zahara definitely feels like it would be driven by the fact that she’s got her life together and acknowledging that I was better with her. So that’s what I’m going for.  

“Loads of people have played my character, some of which I’m huge fans of, so even I’m daunted by the fact that I’m playing a version of it but people have been really cool.

“But other than that, Jag gets to sing some cool stuff and party a lot, and most of the songs drive the plot, which is always lovely. I’m not going to say that every single song, like ‘Dead Ringer’ in Act 2, has a plot – that’s just us pissing about and having a party! But I think you need a moment to reset and switch off for a few minutes, enjoy what’s going on, and then get back into the plot, and we are always trying to drive connection.

“I love ‘Dead Ringer’ but it was the song I had to audition with and I didn’t love it then! I had to do a self-tape and I originally was like, ‘I don’t want to sing this. I can’t sing it for one day, let alone 10 months. Went in, had to sing in the room, and Michael Reed, the musical supervisor, was like: ‘Wow, those are just flying out your mouth.’

“I’ve worked with it a lot and, touch wood, I’ve never had any issues with it, but it is vocally very difficult. It was so high and energetic and just want to jump about all the time!”

So, were you a fan of Jim Steinman and Meatloaf before this opportunity then?

RC: “I am a sucker for a dramatic song but I’m not going to pretend that I was specifically a fan of Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman. My little brother was, and when I got the audition through the show, he said, ‘Can you actually get this job, please?’ I’m a big fan of ‘Objects in the Rearview Mirror’ and that was a song that I like to sing anyway.

“Anything with a big dramatic underscore that justifies me belting my tits off in a pop song, I definitely feel a lot for. I listen to a lot of film soundtracks; a lot of this feels ‘soundtracky’ anyway.

“I am a fan now, especially doing research in the show and knowing he’d been working on a version of the show since the 70s, and at one point it was called Neverland. Knowing that he’d effectively been working on the show for so many years before it actually ended up getting commissioned, especially from a fellow artistic point of view, it’s amazing to see he had such vision and passion for one project that you drove it all the way through to fruition. I can’t commit to things that long! It’s a sign of him as an artist now for sure.”

I’m guessing there’s a lot of really intense choreography. Are there any particularly challenging numbers?

RC: “There are but I am lucky in that I don’t do a lot of the heavy dancing. I get to do see them all start to dance and then I just stand somewhere else! That said, my scene partner, Georgia, is an insane dancer. There were times in rehearsal when typically Jag and Zahara would not do the number and we just stand out, but she would say, ‘I really want to do this dance break, so I need you to learn it’. So I did! I’m doing more than I think I was supposed to because she wanted to dance and I didn’t want to be the reason she didn’t get to dance!

“But it probably is a good way for me to shout out how incredible the ensemble are. I have never been a part of a company where every single ensemble member is a triple threat. They would probably say one of the hardest dances is ‘Bat Out of Hell’ because it’s quite relentless.

“Yeah, I know that the opening number that I do dance with them, ‘All Revved Up’, is quite intense. They then do a number called ‘Out of The Frying Pan (And Into The Fire)’, which when I look at them, I think it’s one of the best numbers in the show, but I’m so glad I’m not in it because I’d die. I am not a dancer. I do dance a bit, but none of mine is that complicated thankfully.

“A lot of the people that are primarily dancers in the show really enjoy doing it, which is probably testament to how good it is.”

Outside of the show, what is your favourite kind of music? If you could make a musical about one musician for example, who would you choose?

RC: “I don’t know if I would do it justice, but I will say a Prince musical. I think I could have one of those like cute little tracks where I get to sing one of the songs, but I don’t play Prince. I think that’d be really cool because it’s so eclectic. They were going to do it at one point, and something happened. It was called Purple Rain.

“I think & Juliet is almost in the same way that Bat Out of Hell is, uses the writer’s music rather than a particular artist. I do think that means that there’s a better range to play with structurally. So I definitely would want to work on something like that. Or that Britney Once Upon a One More Time thing because I just think I would have a really good time… getting to be a Disney Prince and singing Britney Spears… I’m that kind of gay… It’s perfect for me!”

So you’ve been in quite a variety of shows over the years. Which has been your favourite so far to be in or to have learnt from?

“It’s really early days, but this is the most fun in a show that I’ve had of this like scale and design. 

“I learned the most on Ain’t Too Proud. When I first auditioned for that job, I knew this would be a contract of me getting to work with some of the best Black male singers in the industry, and it’s exactly what it was. I got to work with some amazing people who I now consider friends. The standard was really high and it was quite a difficult job if I’m going to be completely honest. What was expected of us felt disproportionate to what I know was expected of other people in other positions in shows, especially other races. I think what was expected of us as a group of Black men was different to what is expected to our counterparts, but I learnt a lot from that.

“But my favourite job, the one which I really enjoyed doing was The World Goes ‘Round at the Barn Theatre during the pandemic, and I think it’s because I was really lucky to be one of the few people that was employed as a singer during that time. I also don’t get to do a lot of like legit musical theatre stuff. I think because of my casting bracket, it’s very rare that I’ll get considered for something legit and classical. So getting to sing that kind of music was amazing, and I loved the company I was with. We performed on these like beautiful outdoor gardens.

“That was why it was my favourite job. If I did it right now, it might not be. But because of what it was circumstantially, that is what I tell people was my favourite job on a regular basis.

“I also dispute the fact that Motown: The Musical was my first West End contract. I did that for two and a half years and I was really young (like 20, which in performing years is like 5)! I don’t think I’ve realized how good it was at the time because it was just like quite overwhelming. And there’s this weird thing that happens when you graduate after training to be in the West End and then get your first contract, where all of a sudden, it’s work and you have to come to terms with the fact that the thing that your passion is now a job.

Were you also in Choir of Man?

RC: “I did Choir of Man for the Assembly Festival programme for three months and then we went out to Edinburgh Fringe and it was a really cool environment.

“If you have friends that don’t like musicals, it’s an excellent one to take people to. I used to call it ‘the normal person’s Magic Mike‘ since all of us that are on stage look like normal people and the Magic Mike cast look like superhumans. 

“When I was in Choir Man, I really wanted them to look into the idea of doing it with a prison program because the whole show is about reframing male mental health, and it uses songs as a cathartic and uplifting thing rather than like something gimmicky. I think there should be musical theatre prison programs in general because I think it’s a really cool way to use what we do.

“I guess Choir of Man also set me up vocally to do Ain’t Too Proud because it was the most demanding vocal I’d ever done at that point, then it was ATP and you won’t be shocked to hear that Bat Out of Hell is currently the most demanding. So each job has prepared me for the next one in a sense.”

So taking a bit of a tangent, do you have any hobbies outside of the theatre?

RC: “Yes, but most of my hobbies are adjacent to theatre. It’s also kind of a side hustle, but I do a lot of editing and digital stuff, which ended up being really useful because during the pandemic I ended up getting employed to do a lot of that with theatres, which was cool.

“But I have never been a big traveller because I’ve always been someone that’s been too nervous to leave London because of theatre, thinking, ‘Oh, if I went on holiday for two weeks, what if I missed an audition?’ I was in a very unhealthy headspace and thrilled to announce that I’m no longer in that headspace. Things like me being a different city every couple of weeks and getting to see different things and like experience different places. I’m considering a hobby because I’m carving out time to go and do something in each city on the tour, like see people and find the best coffee spots and cutest spaces to go and read a book I’m trying to utilize the free time I get.

“I’m reading a lot. When I was in Aint Too Proud, I managed to read 36 books in one year, and I don’t know why I’ve not been able to do that again since. Last year; I read about 24, and this year I am trying to do a book every two weeks. I also read a lot because I’m interested in developing titles to adapt into shows. Sometimes I read things through the lens of, ‘Wwould this make a good show?’ because it’s often recognisable titles that are drawing audiences in. I think books are a good way to do it rather than movies. I think if you get a book, for example Wicked that obviously was a book that got turned into a musical and then it became a movie – that trajectory is probably the best way to adapt rather than book, movie, musical. There’s more license to be artistic.

“Have you seen the movie Stardust? So I was like, someone has to get the rights to this. Stardust would make an amazing show, and that was a book first (by Neil Gaiman). Tim Minchin has it, and he’s probably going to do a really good job with that but I don’t know where it is because I’ve been waiting for that for a long time!

“I think I might try and be good enough with money that I can have a rest and not go straight into another job.”

Is there anything you’d like to add?

RC: “I just want to shout out the people I get to perform alongside of: Glenn [Adamson], who plays Strat, is one of the best versions of the role that I’ve come across. He’s also an awesome leader of the company. He’s a really good energy to be around.

“Katie Tonkinson, who plays Raven… I am obsessed with her voice! She’s sensational and she’s also so consistent.  She’s been off for a few days because there’s a lurgy going around trying to take everyone out but the standard the company hold themselves to is quite high so if we don’t think we’re going to be able to write a show, like we do just acknowledge it and move on.

“I spend most of the show with Georgia Bradshaw, who plays Zahara. She saves me on a personal level with making sure that I know what’s going on, and every time I get to be with her on stage, we have so much fun and chemistry! There’s one scene where we’re meant to not be too friendly with each other, and we kept getting noted that we’re just too friendly with each other because I don’t think they’ve had a Zahara and Jaguar that have gotten on like we have. Even in vocal rehearsal, the director was liken ‘You two must have known each other a really long time’, but really we had just met!

“And then Rob Fowler and Sharon Sexton, who are legends in not only the Bat Out of Hell universe, but the industry in general. We affectionately call them the company’s “mum and dad”. They’re also just vocally sensational, and I’m lucky to spend so much time with them. They’re both awesome influences and every time they sing at every single show, at least one person will say, ‘I want to be there. I want to be like them’, and I’m like ‘Me too’. Every single one we’ve done, like one person, a different person every time.

“And then we also have Luke Street (Ledoux), Carly Burns (Valkyrie) and Carla Bertran (Tink) who are also awesome and vocally amazing. 

‘I’m just having the best time and the ensemble is freaking sensational. I’ve never been in a cast where everyone is so well-versed in all three things, and it’s just a really cool space to be in.  We have alternates that go on every week, and the alternates are also incredible, and it’s really cool that the show is slightly different every time I do it. There’s a real safety that I have in knowing that the show is just going to be good every time, no matter who you are.

“And then our swings are obviously incredible. One of our swings went on halfway through the first show, which someone joked would happen. They said, ‘Someone always goes on during opening night’. Sure enough, someone went over their ankle on the first show, and then this guy was swung on halfway through. Then there was someone else by day two. The swing have all been on already, even though we’re only three weeks in. They’re pretty amazing and I’m just very lucky to be hanging out with them on a daily basis.

“A lot of the fans tell me how many times they’ve seen it and sometimes it’s like close to the hundreds and I’m like, ‘You’ve seen it more times than I’ve done it’n which is absurd!”

Bat Out of Hell tours the UK until September 20; it plays at Opera House Manchester from February 24 until March